Curse

kerpall · Feb 28, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Theres 3 people who cry about the economy...

1. People who can't afford expensive weapons
2. People who are filthy rich and are upset that weapons are cheaper.
3. People still whining about loot-scaling.

I personally am anything but filthy rich, but I am upset items i worked for to buy that were uber rare before, any noob with 100k can now buy. [Example] I never expected for items to retain huge value, but crystallines from zaishen chest? cmon...

If anet wants to make items rare, for godsake, cant they keep them rare?
All this inscribable BS is killing economy. Before a r9 or less 15^50 was rare, but now you get a r9, and simply add a 15^50 to it. There is no diversity in value, because anyone can make the item's stats however they want.

CHannum · Feb 28, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

If anet wants to make items rare, for godsake, cant they keep them rare?
All this inscribable BS is killing economy. Before a r9 or less 15^50 was rare, but now you get a r9, and simply add a 15^50 to it. There is no diversity in value, because anyone can make the item's stats however they want.

You're whining, hard. I've been playing I would estimate four hours a day, pretty much every day since sometime in November when I started. That's a LOT more time invested than 90% of the games I've ever "beaten" three ways to Sunday, and way past what your normal human being puts into any game, ever.

I've gotten one 15^50 inscription in all that gaming time, one. I can get much better inherent bonuses by going to the trouble of using collectors than I can manage to customise on those economy destroying inscribables after hundreds of hours of game time.

People can blame inscriptions all they want, but it's not inscriptions that are "killing" the economy, it's that the sort of no life's who actually are willing to put in the ridiculous hours needed to get some of the rarer game item since money was scaled are moving on as the game grows older and the player base changes. The newer players are just scratching their heads at why anyone would care about this stuff. 15 minutes on a BMP mission and, poof, perfect weapon that looks decent enough with +20% damage (which, ironically, since almost nobody customises the perfect weapons is actually *better* performing than your average 100K+XE weapon) AND they even pay you half a plat for the "trouble" of accepting a perfect weapon.

It's not inscriptions, it's not just loot scaling, it's not just Ursan, it's just that the vast majority of the populace just doesn't give a flying crap about these items enough to convert 500 game hours into one trinket when they could be doing so many other things in game. Sure, in the early days I'm sure there were plenty of hard core faithful who would have creamed their cod piece for a nice looking weapon with perfect stats, but do you really think for a second that such players are the sorts who are the majority of the current player base? If it was as hard to get decent equipment as you seem to think it ought to be, the game would have died a long time ago.

It takes a serious lack of perspective to see the "increased commonality" of rare items as anything of any consequence whatsoever. Crystalline swords from Zaishen keys? Oh noes... I could have had about two keys after more than three months of gaming with all the faction I've generated. I'm sure that would have netted me at least three of these super rare items

Terraban · Feb 28, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

I personally am anything but filthy rich, but I am upset items i worked for to buy that were uber rare before, any noob with 100k can now buy. [Example] I never expected for items to retain huge value, but crystallines from zaishen chest? cmon...

Far from rich but 100k is "noob"?
100k is probably more than half the Guild Wars population has ever had.

Items that you "worked" for, as in you busted your ass doing something that you didn't enjoy...you take this out on other people and QQ to us why?

You chose to do something that you didn't like in a video game made for enjoyment. That is your problem.

If you did infact enjoy getting the gold for your items, then it wasn't "work", and I don't see why you are whining about it.

politicsxxox · Feb 28, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

it takes awhile to get 100k , as new players so in. They are bounded to unexpected get rip off and selling something expensive into the market. Working up to 100k is usually 3 months after you beat the game , learn to do DoA (which also contributes to the armbraces market/economy although i think it is much associated with duping) then you spend it! --- Restart button.

kerpall · Feb 28, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I can 100k no problem, ofcourse this is from spending my money, and re-investing it. I admit you can't make money, if you don't have a decent amount saved up to invest with.

However, for those of you supporting the low prices of everything, you are slapping every player thats ever farmed to achieve somthing cool (and many of the sellers in high end) right accross the face. If you want to sit around, talk on guild chat all day, be my guest. But there are those of us that go out, farm, and try to get rare items for our viewing pleasure.

Why should we get ripped off with our farming, when those of you that just sit around chatting the whole time, not even playing the game, can easily access rare items that took us ages to get a few months / a year a go?

Casual player should get Casual items (unless they got uber lucky, and got a rare from a chest).

Harder players should have the Rarer items.

Letting weapon, and rare mini values drop like this is horrible, I've lost over 300k on my mini already. There are those out there that have lost 100's of ecto on values already, and some that have lost XX armbraces on their items.

Sure this economy is currently benefiting the casual slacker, or moderate farmer. But it is really annoying to those of us that Already own rare items.

Yawgmoth · Feb 28, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Theres 3 people who cry about the economy...

1. People who can't afford expensive weapons
2. People who are filthy rich and are upset that weapons are cheaper.
3. People still whining about loot-scaling.

Disagree.

Don't forget about those who see the real problems of todays gw economy - those who play the game, find many perfect gold items with mid-range skins and are completely unable to sell them!
People who were used to chest running and making some profit of that, now have to merch 90% of the drops that were easily sellable to players before the HardMode update!

It's not only about things losing value with time, as it's unavoidable, the problem is completly no demand for anything except top trendy rares or things that doesn't drop anymore. This is just sick, even the best Xunlai Marketplace won't help, it won't generate any new demand.

Cacheelma · Feb 28, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Why do you think people don't want those "mid-range skins" now then?

That's the whole point of why you can't sell them; nobody wants them! Some people might want to use whichever skins they like without caring about it's value/popularity/social status/ego boosting property/whatever. But you can't deny the fact that at the end of the day, all that left in this so-called GW's economy are "ego-boosting materials" or "Vanity items". Not everybody wants them, not everybody can afford them. Mid-range skins to rare skins are like purple items to gold items; why bother with the next-best when everybody else cares about THE BEST?

You can't blame the economy if you can't sell something nobody wants.

howlinghobo · Feb 28, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

really, how much money you have really isnt that important

basically the only reason these people complain is because everybody has access to their epeen enlargers, so even though they themselves are no worse off they feel the need to complain all day in forums

they were pretty rich before, having tormented weapons and such, but not rich enough to get stacks of ecto's for the incredibly expensive stuff out there, now that tormented weapons are cheaper, they dont have a way to feel special in game, so they complain on forums to try and get attention

and making rare items more accessible to people is COMPLETELY reasonable, guild wars after all was made to be revolutionary in the sense that they would work to shorten the gap between players with thousands of hours on their accounts and players with hundreds, the discriminant was supposed to be skill, and having to farm hundreds of hours for enough money to buy something doesnt make sense with that philosophy

seriously though, if you dont not enjoy farming for farming's sake, dont do it, if you decided to devote a thousand hours to farming we shouldnt be to blame

Angelic Upstart · Feb 28, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

You're whining, hard. I've been playing I would estimate four hours a day, pretty much every day since sometime in November when I started. That's a LOT more time invested than 90% of the games I've ever "beaten" three ways to Sunday, and way past what your normal human being puts into any game, ever.

I've gotten one 15^50 inscription in all that gaming time, one. I can get much better inherent bonuses by going to the trouble of using collectors than I can manage to customise on those economy destroying inscribables after hundreds of hours of game time.

People can blame inscriptions all they want, but it's not inscriptions that are "killing" the economy, it's that the sort of no life's who actually are willing to put in the ridiculous hours needed to get some of the rarer game item since money was scaled are moving on as the game grows older and the player base changes. The newer players are just scratching their heads at why anyone would care about this stuff. 15 minutes on a BMP mission and, poof, perfect weapon that looks decent enough with +20% damage (which, ironically, since almost nobody customises the perfect weapons is actually *better* performing than your average 100K+XE weapon) AND they even pay you half a plat for the "trouble" of accepting a perfect weapon.

It's not inscriptions, it's not just loot scaling, it's not just Ursan, it's just that the vast majority of the populace just doesn't give a flying crap about these items enough to convert 500 game hours into one trinket when they could be doing so many other things in game. Sure, in the early days I'm sure there were plenty of hard core faithful who would have creamed their cod piece for a nice looking weapon with perfect stats, but do you really think for a second that such players are the sorts who are the majority of the current player base? If it was as hard to get decent equipment as you seem to think it ought to be, the game would have died a long time ago.

It takes a serious lack of perspective to see the "increased commonality" of rare items as anything of any consequence whatsoever. Crystalline swords from Zaishen keys? Oh noes... I could have had about two keys after more than three months of gaming with all the faction I've generated. I'm sure that would have netted me at least three of these super rare items

Youve been playing what 3 months??

LOL, the inscriptions system, loot scaling and HM, and to a lesser extent PvE skills and consumables have ALL combined to take, the incentive and profit out of the economy. In short it is TOO easy now to get a perfect weapon which is worth jack shit.

Originally Posted by Terraban
Theres 3 people who cry about the economy...

1. People who can't afford expensive weapons
2. People who are filthy rich and are upset that weapons are cheaper.
3. People still whining about loot-scaling.

Terraban, basically before lootscaling, money was easier to make through the rarer drops that would make farming worth it,
a lot of the people are not whining about peoples ability to gain max weapons easier than they did, they are moaning and justifiably so about the devaluation of the rarer drops that made the game more fun, and more importantly made earning money less of a grind.
Loot scaling and before that the AoE scatter implementation, had a massive impact on farming in general, especially the 55 monk, for example overnight the Troll run was neutered, which was a good source of income through the material drops alone. It meant that if people wanted to supplement or fund their armour or whatever they wouldnthave to spend hours doing it.

Moral55 · Feb 28, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

All games have a few trendys that are worth a fortune and virtually every thing else is worth diddly..... I mean in D2 it was Zod runes and about 7-9 other items.
In other games it's probably other things, I see nothing unique here at all.

kerpall · Feb 28, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moral55

I see nothing unique here at all.

Well there Were unique things in GW, until anet made them all common-skins, so noobies can be leet like people who have played for several years.

Just because people like HowlingHobo have troubles getting good items and nice gear, ANET accomodates the lesser-skilled players by making nice drops more common. Who knows, maybe Kanaxai's, panda's, and Island guardians will drop from the sky like wintersday gifts

.

They should seriously fix how insanely common they made all their rare skins.
People aint buying normal skins, cus rare ones are neerly the same value. Value of rare ones gonig down, because they drop too easily, and there are too many sellers. a Vicious circle, with many more contributions to this mess of an economy.

ADDED (@ Hobo, & terraban): Where did i say i don't like farmnig?
Farming requires time.
Getting cash is from farming.
Getting Rare's require you to grind alot, to be able to afford the item.
Grind 100 hrs for an item, then buy it with your profit.
Anet decides to make that item you grinded 100 hrs for, drop like flowing water.
Your 100 hrs wasted, guy beside you did it in 5 hrs.

Sure you newbies will support anything that allows you to look leet like some of us, w/o the work behind it. It's just the natural greed of newbs, and the need to be leet, w/o working for it.

Rare items should be gained by Experience you have. Why should a guy thats been playing for 1 month have the same gear as someone who's been playing neerly 3 years?
Current economy beenfits the noobies, and spits in the face of anyone who's been around awhile.

Shiing! · Feb 28, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Yeah, I agree with the people that say it is harder to get gold these days.
The crash of the armbrace market makes DoA less "worth it".

I think there should be a little more reward from missions and quests, etc, to bring the economy back up to where it once was.

kerpall · Feb 28, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiing!

Yeah, I agree with the people that say it is harder to get gold these days.
The crash of the armbrace market makes DoA less "worth it".

I think there should be a little more reward from missions and quests, etc, to bring the economy back up to where it once was.

exactly, you put in the same effort, but are rewarded less. Rares worth less, Mini's worth less, armbraces worth less. All for the same amount of work, just less rewards (aside from DoA, ursans kinda screwed that one up [well contributed anyways] ).

Iuris · Feb 28, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

However, for those of you supporting the low prices of everything, you are slapping every player thats ever farmed to achieve somthing cool (and many of the sellers in high end) right accross the face.

Sorry, but... SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP...

Take a look at you. It's not what you have that brings you happiness, it's that others don't have it. Noobs are apparently only entitled to base gear. Everynoen that wants better, you would have them farm for it hard.

I have 1600 hours played. 9 characters. 7 of them in 15k armor. 8 with 3 campaigns finished, 6 with EotN finished too. I HAVE played the game, a lot. I just played all of the content, and not just the one and the same area 10000000000 times, with the same build, just to get money. And as a result, I have 350k in my storage, all together, saving up for a set of FoW armor for the ritualist (since I don't like the looks of the other 15k armors). However, I could spend the money on a few other nice items.

And now you, with a

Quote:

"I said i wasnt Filthy Rich, lol a couple hundred ecto aint filthy rich. 1000+ ecto is filthy rich, that i definately do not have."

claim that the economy that lets me do that after a YEAR of playing is a bad one. Because I didn't farm?

Play for what you really get. Not for the perception of prestige that comes of it.

Terraban · Feb 28, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

ADDED (@ Hobo, & terraban): Where did i say i don't like farmnig?
Farming requires time.
Getting cash is from farming.
Getting Rare's require you to grind alot, to be able to afford the item.
Grind 100 hrs for an item, then buy it with your profit.
Anet decides to make that item you grinded 100 hrs for, drop like flowing water.
Your 100 hrs wasted, guy beside you did it in 5 hrs.

Sure you newbies will support anything that allows you to look leet like some of us, w/o the work behind it. It's just the natural greed of newbs, and the need to be leet, w/o working for it.

Rare items should be gained by Experience you have. Why should a guy thats been playing for 1 month have the same gear as someone who's been playing neerly 3 years?
Current economy beenfits the noobies, and spits in the face of anyone who's been around awhile.

So you are another one of them people that fully support working in a game you bought for enjoyment?

You buy a game for enjoyment
You spend hundreds and thousands of hours doing something you don't like.
Buy an item that makes your ego super-huge.

ANet changes the game, in which makes that item no longer take hundreds of hours to farm for, and you bitch and moan.
Why use a game to boost your ego? If you are making a job of the game, why not just get a real job and get real things to boost your ego with?

Just because you did something that you didn't like doing means that everyone should have to do something they don't like doing?

Maybe I am wrong in this...but ANet taking out something that nobody likes doing is good for the game is it not?
Or are you trying to say that leaving things to the game that people don't like makes it more fun?

azizul1975 · Feb 28, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

after reading through the posts in these thread, please allow me to add to the list of whiners :

4. Those people who grinded uber hard or pay a lot to get these so called rare items, now find out that the particular rare item isn't that rare anymore.

personally i don't see tormented weapon as rare, they are just expensive, but not rare, as it can be bought anytime if u have the gold. however, a gold req 7 max with perfect inherent mod (not inscribed) , now that's rare. not that i know any of it dropped from zaishen chest....

JASON626 · Feb 28, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I think alot of people playing guild wars liked it becuase they saw the level cap at 20 where skill isn't time playing the game.
In the same sense I want to play a game because of content and its challenges. But the same people that want things to be rare want you to be either very lucky or put in time. Now luck and time are the determining factors. I'm not sure why people want to buy and sell most of there time. Theres a game out there called Monopoly if you like that.

I think anet needs to have a better way to keep the economy in check. In game features not a third party website.

milkflopance · Feb 28, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerpall

I am upset items i worked for to buy that were uber rare before, any noob with 100k can now buy

Do you react the same way in real life when something drops in price?

itsvictor · Feb 28, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

If there's one thing I noticed, people whining about the depreciating value of their ohso leet weapon, get what looks good, honestly no one gives a shit what you have. Those that do, well, they need to get out more. When anyone can have anything, that's the ideal economy imo, people get what they want, stop whining that another dude has the same stuff, how about being original or getting over it? Inscriptions, etc are really good, casual players can get good stuff, it's a crime to want things without having to dedicate god knows how many hours wasted in front of a computer screen making data flow?

Oh yeah FYI, grinding 100's of hours of your life for a piece of insignficant pixel, well shame on you sir. You don't look "leet", you look "good" for lack of a better word, but still shows you have dedicated many hours of your life to a game, instead of playing "Life" a real mmorpg. Also overtime it's fairly obvious EVERYTHING DROPS IN PRICE, when there's an infinite supply waiting to be found.

Another point to be made, with gold harder to get, that makes gold's worth increase, that means your dollar today equals XXX more tomorrow. Don't spend your cash a.s.a.p and complain zomg it r so hurd to make teh epic l00t.

kerpall · Feb 28, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsvictor

Also overtime it's fairly obvious EVERYTHING DROPS IN PRICE, when there's an infinite supply waiting to be found.
.

If you read anything i said, that is not a factor i am talknig about.

YES, items will depreciate over time.

NO, i don not agree with Anet altering the drop rates of items to make all the rare skins really common. GW:en and the Zaishen chest turned EVERY rare skin common (or more common) almost overnight. It took a week [for example] for the Runic blade to drop from 100k 200e , to 100k flat after release of GW:en. thats a 1000k drop!

That is not depreciation over time, that is completely destroying its value.

For all of you that have never tried, there fore never achieved any rare items, you have no idea where I am coming from. Ask for anyone who has spent their spare time farming for a really cool weapon, and then ask them how they felt when that rare item started to drop as common as whites and blues.

It's a waste of anyone's time spent doing missions / quests / farmnig for gold to buy somthing they want.

The only reason i can see that none of you arent the slightest annoyed with the value drops, is because none of you own anything of value to begin with. Therefore, you have no idea what those of us who do own rares that we farmed are thinking.

added: You can make up dumb excuses along the lines of "e-peen, e-viagra, etc" , but when it comes down to it, People that have farmed these things are simply just "better at the game" , than you. I am not the richest, most skilled player. But I'm pretty sure I'm better at the game than those of you who sit around in your guild hall chatting all day, rather than doing missions / quests / farming / actually playing the game .